I live on 171st. and Firmona. I've been rooting for placement where there are tracks used by a freight train every day. Obagi is advocating that the least able to defend themselves pay the freight (pun intended) as when the interstate highway system in the 60s routed poor people out of their neighborhoods. No interstate ramps into Beverly Hills, Palos Verdes and the Palisades. To run it on elevated track through Hawthorne would be a full employment act for the attorneys. Eminent domain actions, environmental swat teams and disruption for the general population would be the name of the game. Remember when a discount grocery and a pharmacy were going in on Artesia? Protestors kicked and squealed. For the life of me I couldn't figure out what was objectionable about a grocery and a pharmacy. Then it dawned on me. The great unwashed from Lawndale would cross the line of demarcation on Inglewood Blvd. and there goes the neighborhood. I suspect Obagi is of the same mentality.
Mary, You do understand the difference between one train running 5-7 times a week and two light rail trains running every 6 minutes , 20 hours, 7 days a week?
I would hope you would have some empathy for your neighbors whose peaceful and safe existence will disappear if ROW C proceeds.
There is the hazard of derailments even when the deadly gas pipes are removed. Your neighbors will face this possible danger every day.
A neighborhood of high density along with 2 schools close by will become a situation full of peril with these 2 additional light rail trains constantly on the move. Track barriers will be a magnet for school children, teenagers, and others who want to cross to the others side.
This is destined to become a killing field with accidents if this option full of inequities is rammed down outbacks.
Yes, the schedule would be a higher run rate. I live half a block from the tracks. I have a 7 year old living on my property and we are cautious about his safety as well as his future. If the goal is mass transit then the least expense to the taxpayer and environment is a consideration. I am not a mass transit advocate as I did not appreciate it over 50 years ago in Manhattan. Loved the freedom of L.A. I don't know who makes the ultimate call on this, but I suspect we are being patronized when asked for our opinion. The metro agency, if that's it, will decide.
If everyone rolls over and accepts this railroading of our neighborhood then it will happen. ROW C will be a bigger expense just with the gas pipeline removal. I like puns 😃, too, Mary. Please join us and help prevent this horror in your backyard and the neighbors who are affected by ROW C option.
How about get a hold of the facts? Do you also think that the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) engages in aggrandizement?
According to the FRA in a 3 year period (2015-2018) there were 46, 891 rail accidents resulting in 3,170 fatalities and 13,459nonfatal injuries.
Derailments are the most common cause of rail accidents.
In 2018 alone, 1,348 derailment incidents. Human error sited as the most common cause.
We who live in ROW C prefer that you do not minimize the extreme danger to our very congested neighborhood. This peril would never be permitted without waivers to CEQA (California Environmental Quality Act) because of the population density within a few meters.
Sorry Mary, but your racist assumptions about the motivations the NRB locals had over the Grocery Outlet before it was a confirmed deal, do not wash, do not represent the facts of the situation at the time, and reflect poorly on you and the way your mind works. Oh, and one more thing, there were no "protestors". All the opposition was online/social media. No demonstrations, no picketing, nor petition drives. This is just you trying to ratchet up drama that does not exist. Why do you need to to that? What's your agenda? Who put you up to this?
Clearly you are among the group that opposes District 4 Councilmember Obagi being elected as a resident-oriented office holder; a man that hit the ground running to bring improvement and progress to North Redondo and the city as a whole. But, his election broke the hold his predecessor participated in with the other 2 North Redondo councilmembers to block all the good works Mayor Brand was elected to bring us as mandated by the voters. Now, the hold of those politically aligned with the former one-term Mayor Aspel, have lost their power to disrupt meaningful improvement to the city, and they are besides themselves in their anguish over that loss of power, and so engaged a Long Beach weed-mogul to fund a $300,000 effort to send paid signature gathers into district 4 to lie to the residents to obtain signatures for their fraudulent petition at an average of a $50 bounty per signature. It's shameful that these people who had power over this city for 40 plus years and left us with an over-crowded North Redondo, no parking, traffic grid-lock and Artesia Blvd in serious decline from their neglect & incompetence think anyone wants that mess back in office. No way anyone that lives here and values our quality of life ever wants those developer-funded politicians regaining office and returning to their destructive ways.
And, BTW, your assumption that CM Obagi is somehow responsible for the entire city council advocating for Metro to select the elevated Hawthorne route for the C-Line (Green-Line) is pure fiction. The fact is the council was backing the citizen-organized grass-root effort to talk sense to Metro and spend a few percentage points more of their budget to save us all from the considerable human-cost of running 10 trains per hour along the ROW and just outside the backyards and bedrooms of a couple thousand residents in Lawndale and Redondo.
Of course, with the new Metro data we now know that the Hawthorne route is indeed the least expensive of the 2 options still being considered. The at-grade route along the ROW creates an unresolvable public safety issue with the ambulances stationed on the east side to the ROW being blocked from timely crossing the tracks at 182nd St. So only very the expensive trenched ROW option and the Hawthorne option remain. Metro also tells us the Hawthorne option is expected to attract the most riders, making it the top choice on every point that matters.
"Low brow"? Your words here are not an accurate reflection of the facts. People didn't have a problem with a grocery store on that site. What they wanted was a full service grocery store. Once CVS took the lease, but only wanted to use 1/2 of it, the remaining space was far to small for such a full service store. So the locals adapted their goals and advocated for a Trader Joe's, Mothers Market, or the smaller footprint Whole Food Market, and such. The opposition to the Grocery Outlet was that it was too much like the discount stores, thrift shops and dive bars that were keeping Artesia Blvd from attracting the kinds of shops and other tenants that would bring the goods & services the residents preferred and hoped would bring improvement and progress to our sadly neglected North Redondo business corridor.
Sure, you can take the low road and try to paint this grass-roots effort to have "nice things" come to our neighborhood as opposition to "low brow" enterprises, but in fact Grocery Outlet was not going to provide the service the locals preferred. People wanted fresh food, not something close to the expiration date, not the left-overs from grocery chains that found themselves overstocked with products people were not buying, and an ever revolving stock of brands you never heard of before in lieu of well known and trusted national brands and brands associated with good-quality products. This issue was definitely not about what constitutes "low brow", but in actuality was an effort to get the best possible amenities for the neighborhood and one that meets actual consumer demand. That was not Grocery Outlet.
Also, to set the record straight, once people heard that the owner was the prior manager of the Lucky's and the Albertson's at this site, the opposition relaxed and accepted the claim that he would stock the store according to the needs of the community he was so familiar with. It hasn't really panned out as well as expected, and I don't blame the owner, I blame the second-hand food strategy that is the Grocery Outlet mission, as it constrains him from meeting community demand.
Still can't do all my shopping there in one trip, like at Ralphs or Vons, as the brands I bought before and liked are never seen again. And the produce is often a bit more raggedy than I would spend money on. Still, it's all we have, despite every visit being a gamble. But I've never heard anyone refer to this situation with the words, "low brow", until now.
Wow, all that outdated, obsolete data and commentary.... Anyone up on the facts of these routes can clearly see the advantage in Metro servicing businesses and stopping at true destinations like the soon to be re-developed South Bay Galleria and the apartments coming with it, but also the increased ridership that Metro now touts.
Other than the Metro stop at Hawthorne & Artesia potentially luring shoppers away from the Del Amo Mall, there is nothing for Torrance residents to complain about, as this route brings a station closer to potential North Torrance riders. And Torrance could have asked for the tracks to go all the way down Hawthorne (elevated) so their mall could also be a destination for shoppers. But they didn't, and that's all on them.
And BTW, even Metro now says the elevated Hawthorne option would be less expensive than the trenching option that goes under 182nd St. Without that expensive trench, the emergency response vehicles stationed just east of the ROW tracks would be unacceptably obstructed with a train crossing every 6 or 7 minutes, so that original plan is effectively of the table now, leaving the elevated Hawthorne option as the best in ridership, in delivery of riders to shopping destinations, in reducing the many negative local resident impacts, and in cost.
I live in Lawndale and oppose this intrusion and dangerous option ROW C.
I believe we are in the year 2022 not 2017 so any of that financial data is obsolete especially as new problems come into light.
The cost of removing all the hazardous gas pipes wasn’t even a consideration 5 years ago. Me. Meiter of Metro said they are in discussions with Shell for removal. Even if the gas pipes are removed, there have been thousands of train derailments in the last decade resulting in fires and death. The residents are in an extremely congested area where ROW C is and with 2 trains every 6 minutes they are facing a grave danger.
This unsafe situation wouldn’t exist without the waiver from the environment impact. Those affected weren’t allowed any voice as this was bulldozed through the legislation.
Your concern is about parking spaces and cost saving while mine is about safety and our quality of life.
If they proceed with ROW option and build barriers to prevent people from entering then I predict many costly lawsuits.
Metro must know from prior experience people will want to cross to the other side. They probably had a special budget for repairing fences with big holes made by pedestrians making their own shortcuts.
Children, teenagers, taggers, and homeless people will climb over the barrier. They will face the peril of 2 roaring trains every 6 minutes.
This will be an expensive choice in more ways than money.
I live on 171st. and Firmona. I've been rooting for placement where there are tracks used by a freight train every day. Obagi is advocating that the least able to defend themselves pay the freight (pun intended) as when the interstate highway system in the 60s routed poor people out of their neighborhoods. No interstate ramps into Beverly Hills, Palos Verdes and the Palisades. To run it on elevated track through Hawthorne would be a full employment act for the attorneys. Eminent domain actions, environmental swat teams and disruption for the general population would be the name of the game. Remember when a discount grocery and a pharmacy were going in on Artesia? Protestors kicked and squealed. For the life of me I couldn't figure out what was objectionable about a grocery and a pharmacy. Then it dawned on me. The great unwashed from Lawndale would cross the line of demarcation on Inglewood Blvd. and there goes the neighborhood. I suspect Obagi is of the same mentality.
Mary, You do understand the difference between one train running 5-7 times a week and two light rail trains running every 6 minutes , 20 hours, 7 days a week?
I would hope you would have some empathy for your neighbors whose peaceful and safe existence will disappear if ROW C proceeds.
There is the hazard of derailments even when the deadly gas pipes are removed. Your neighbors will face this possible danger every day.
A neighborhood of high density along with 2 schools close by will become a situation full of peril with these 2 additional light rail trains constantly on the move. Track barriers will be a magnet for school children, teenagers, and others who want to cross to the others side.
This is destined to become a killing field with accidents if this option full of inequities is rammed down outbacks.
Yes, the schedule would be a higher run rate. I live half a block from the tracks. I have a 7 year old living on my property and we are cautious about his safety as well as his future. If the goal is mass transit then the least expense to the taxpayer and environment is a consideration. I am not a mass transit advocate as I did not appreciate it over 50 years ago in Manhattan. Loved the freedom of L.A. I don't know who makes the ultimate call on this, but I suspect we are being patronized when asked for our opinion. The metro agency, if that's it, will decide.
If everyone rolls over and accepts this railroading of our neighborhood then it will happen. ROW C will be a bigger expense just with the gas pipeline removal. I like puns 😃, too, Mary. Please join us and help prevent this horror in your backyard and the neighbors who are affected by ROW C option.
FRA …4,365 derailments in the US from Jan 1, 2020 through May 31, 3020 out of 6,320 railroad accidents. Derailments accounted for 69%.
How about get a hold of the facts? Do you also think that the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) engages in aggrandizement?
According to the FRA in a 3 year period (2015-2018) there were 46, 891 rail accidents resulting in 3,170 fatalities and 13,459nonfatal injuries.
Derailments are the most common cause of rail accidents.
In 2018 alone, 1,348 derailment incidents. Human error sited as the most common cause.
We who live in ROW C prefer that you do not minimize the extreme danger to our very congested neighborhood. This peril would never be permitted without waivers to CEQA (California Environmental Quality Act) because of the population density within a few meters.
Sorry Mary, but your racist assumptions about the motivations the NRB locals had over the Grocery Outlet before it was a confirmed deal, do not wash, do not represent the facts of the situation at the time, and reflect poorly on you and the way your mind works. Oh, and one more thing, there were no "protestors". All the opposition was online/social media. No demonstrations, no picketing, nor petition drives. This is just you trying to ratchet up drama that does not exist. Why do you need to to that? What's your agenda? Who put you up to this?
Clearly you are among the group that opposes District 4 Councilmember Obagi being elected as a resident-oriented office holder; a man that hit the ground running to bring improvement and progress to North Redondo and the city as a whole. But, his election broke the hold his predecessor participated in with the other 2 North Redondo councilmembers to block all the good works Mayor Brand was elected to bring us as mandated by the voters. Now, the hold of those politically aligned with the former one-term Mayor Aspel, have lost their power to disrupt meaningful improvement to the city, and they are besides themselves in their anguish over that loss of power, and so engaged a Long Beach weed-mogul to fund a $300,000 effort to send paid signature gathers into district 4 to lie to the residents to obtain signatures for their fraudulent petition at an average of a $50 bounty per signature. It's shameful that these people who had power over this city for 40 plus years and left us with an over-crowded North Redondo, no parking, traffic grid-lock and Artesia Blvd in serious decline from their neglect & incompetence think anyone wants that mess back in office. No way anyone that lives here and values our quality of life ever wants those developer-funded politicians regaining office and returning to their destructive ways.
And, BTW, your assumption that CM Obagi is somehow responsible for the entire city council advocating for Metro to select the elevated Hawthorne route for the C-Line (Green-Line) is pure fiction. The fact is the council was backing the citizen-organized grass-root effort to talk sense to Metro and spend a few percentage points more of their budget to save us all from the considerable human-cost of running 10 trains per hour along the ROW and just outside the backyards and bedrooms of a couple thousand residents in Lawndale and Redondo.
Of course, with the new Metro data we now know that the Hawthorne route is indeed the least expensive of the 2 options still being considered. The at-grade route along the ROW creates an unresolvable public safety issue with the ambulances stationed on the east side to the ROW being blocked from timely crossing the tracks at 182nd St. So only very the expensive trenched ROW option and the Hawthorne option remain. Metro also tells us the Hawthorne option is expected to attract the most riders, making it the top choice on every point that matters.
Lord have mercy. Keep your shirt on.
So that's it? Yep, you got nothin' but ignorance. Have a nice day, shirtless or otherwise.
I'm just going to stand back and watch you knock yourself out.
"Low brow"? Your words here are not an accurate reflection of the facts. People didn't have a problem with a grocery store on that site. What they wanted was a full service grocery store. Once CVS took the lease, but only wanted to use 1/2 of it, the remaining space was far to small for such a full service store. So the locals adapted their goals and advocated for a Trader Joe's, Mothers Market, or the smaller footprint Whole Food Market, and such. The opposition to the Grocery Outlet was that it was too much like the discount stores, thrift shops and dive bars that were keeping Artesia Blvd from attracting the kinds of shops and other tenants that would bring the goods & services the residents preferred and hoped would bring improvement and progress to our sadly neglected North Redondo business corridor.
Sure, you can take the low road and try to paint this grass-roots effort to have "nice things" come to our neighborhood as opposition to "low brow" enterprises, but in fact Grocery Outlet was not going to provide the service the locals preferred. People wanted fresh food, not something close to the expiration date, not the left-overs from grocery chains that found themselves overstocked with products people were not buying, and an ever revolving stock of brands you never heard of before in lieu of well known and trusted national brands and brands associated with good-quality products. This issue was definitely not about what constitutes "low brow", but in actuality was an effort to get the best possible amenities for the neighborhood and one that meets actual consumer demand. That was not Grocery Outlet.
Also, to set the record straight, once people heard that the owner was the prior manager of the Lucky's and the Albertson's at this site, the opposition relaxed and accepted the claim that he would stock the store according to the needs of the community he was so familiar with. It hasn't really panned out as well as expected, and I don't blame the owner, I blame the second-hand food strategy that is the Grocery Outlet mission, as it constrains him from meeting community demand.
Still can't do all my shopping there in one trip, like at Ralphs or Vons, as the brands I bought before and liked are never seen again. And the produce is often a bit more raggedy than I would spend money on. Still, it's all we have, despite every visit being a gamble. But I've never heard anyone refer to this situation with the words, "low brow", until now.
Wow, all that outdated, obsolete data and commentary.... Anyone up on the facts of these routes can clearly see the advantage in Metro servicing businesses and stopping at true destinations like the soon to be re-developed South Bay Galleria and the apartments coming with it, but also the increased ridership that Metro now touts.
Other than the Metro stop at Hawthorne & Artesia potentially luring shoppers away from the Del Amo Mall, there is nothing for Torrance residents to complain about, as this route brings a station closer to potential North Torrance riders. And Torrance could have asked for the tracks to go all the way down Hawthorne (elevated) so their mall could also be a destination for shoppers. But they didn't, and that's all on them.
And BTW, even Metro now says the elevated Hawthorne option would be less expensive than the trenching option that goes under 182nd St. Without that expensive trench, the emergency response vehicles stationed just east of the ROW tracks would be unacceptably obstructed with a train crossing every 6 or 7 minutes, so that original plan is effectively of the table now, leaving the elevated Hawthorne option as the best in ridership, in delivery of riders to shopping destinations, in reducing the many negative local resident impacts, and in cost.
I live in Lawndale and oppose this intrusion and dangerous option ROW C.
I believe we are in the year 2022 not 2017 so any of that financial data is obsolete especially as new problems come into light.
The cost of removing all the hazardous gas pipes wasn’t even a consideration 5 years ago. Me. Meiter of Metro said they are in discussions with Shell for removal. Even if the gas pipes are removed, there have been thousands of train derailments in the last decade resulting in fires and death. The residents are in an extremely congested area where ROW C is and with 2 trains every 6 minutes they are facing a grave danger.
This unsafe situation wouldn’t exist without the waiver from the environment impact. Those affected weren’t allowed any voice as this was bulldozed through the legislation.
Your concern is about parking spaces and cost saving while mine is about safety and our quality of life.
If they proceed with ROW option and build barriers to prevent people from entering then I predict many costly lawsuits.
Metro must know from prior experience people will want to cross to the other side. They probably had a special budget for repairing fences with big holes made by pedestrians making their own shortcuts.
Children, teenagers, taggers, and homeless people will climb over the barrier. They will face the peril of 2 roaring trains every 6 minutes.
This will be an expensive choice in more ways than money.
This will be called Death Row in the future.